Joana Ebbinghaus is heavily involved in preparing for the oe-day. In this interview, she talks about her motivation and the significance that the topic still has today – for people and organisations. 

Why is this topic so important to you that it is being addressed at an oe-tag?

I could write a really long essay on this topic. For one thing, there are biographical references for me. Born in West Berlin, the categories of East and West have been present and significant in my life, always associated with strong emotions and curiosity. In my childhood and youth, the East had something mysterious about it for me, present and visible, but still closed off. During my student days, I had a flatmate from Karl-Marx-Stadt, whom I pestered a lot during our time together in order to understand the differences in our attitudes to life. I didn't get very far at the time. Perhaps because it was still too close for my flatmate at the time. And I was too insensitive to ask the right questions.

The issue only really caught up with me again 20 years later, when I was living and working in Germany again after a long period abroad. I remember very clearly when, as an organisational consultant, I first understood in a one-on-one conversation in a charged situation within an organisation that deep conflicts and resentments in a team that did not feel seen, valued or adequately paid were also linked to deeper layers involving East and West biographies, experiences of loss of social status in the wake of reunification, and insensitive handling of clear differences in rank within the organisation.

It slowly dawned on me that I myself had not noticed how strongly the East-West dimension still shapes many social situations – in terms of quick classification and orientation (“are you from the East or the West?”), hasty attributions and categorisations, and experiences of belonging and alienation.

At the beginning of 2024, Bea Schramm and I organised a four-hour workshop at SOCIUS on the topic of “East-West in organisations”What emerged from the discussions that afternoon opened up a whole new dimension for me – one that also touched me deeply: there were so many raw and rarely openly expressed feelings in the room (as one participant said at the time: “I have never been in a place with other people where the focus was explicitly on personal experiences in the context of East-West!”). I was particularly struck by statements that had to do with how difficult it still is to put into words the factual differences, the experience of being judged or not being treated as an equal. Whether it is because one's own experience of pain is perceived as too minor to make East German identity an issue, or because one does not want to be seen as a “whining Ossi”. And that people who were socialised in the West have also had painful experiences of exclusion.

In the last 1-2 years, I feel like a lot has happened in terms of public discourse on East-West socialisation and experiences. There have been many publications, books, workshops and podcasts recently. And yet, I still have the impression that there is so much more to say!

Where does the question of „biographies East and West“ come to life in organisations today?

The situation that arose in many areas after reunification, whereby management was largely socialised in West Germany while the teams tended to be from East Germany, has certainly softened over the last decade – and yet it can still be observed in some areas. But I think that overall, it is very nuanced, diverse and also ambivalent. East and West as categories are often not sufficient. Various categories of diversity now overlap here: generational differences, gender and influences based on supposed “class differences”. However, I do perceive differences in leadership and communication styles between East and West, for example.

And what makes it difficult to talk about sometimes?

I think we live in a time and often operate in social and meaning-driven organisations in a field where people are predominantly sensitised to issues of privilege, discrimination and racism. I believe that the dimension of East German versus West German socialisation is sometimes not considered important enough to be addressed. We are still not very good at finding the words to describe something that is usually very subtle. And speaking from my own experience, I would say that people who have been socialised in West Germany – as is so often the case in the context of privilege – are largely unaware that the same situation can feel different to someone who has been socialised in East Germany. That there may be biographical differences, e.g. in one's own educational background, in the effects of how one's own family was affected by the transformations of the reunification period (or during the GDR era, whether they took advantage of freedoms or were forced to conform) and how they processed these, which still have an impact on the here and now.

What would you be particularly happy about on oe-day?

I would be delighted if at least as many participants from western Germany, brimming with curiosity, found their way to Halle as those from eastern Germany. After all, the ultimate goal is exchange and dialogue, embarking on a journey together, sharing stories, and discovering similarities and differences. And I would be delighted if, at the end of the day, many participants said: I met exciting new people and learned a lot of new things!

Why are you in Halle this year? And will the annual oe-tag now travel more frequently?

It was obvious that we needed to move away from our Berlin-centric perspective on this topic, which is naturally influenced by the location of our office and our field of activity and networking. But if we want to understand something about German-German history, we have to leave the “capital city bubble” behind. It is a pleasure to experience during the preparations what new opportunities arise from being in a completely different location: The distances are more manageable, the contacts more direct and personal. My colleague, Lysan, who lives in Halle, seems to be personally acquainted with almost all the interesting people in the region ????: from the bookshop we are involving, to the coffee fire engine that will supply us with good coffee, to exciting local speakers. I hope we can bring together long-time oe-tags visitors with completely new people who haven't found their way to us yet! If the response is positive, we'll be happy to travel to another location next time!